,..I suggest we form a legal “Peoples” Grand Jury. I suggest we try and convict everyone of them as “traitors”, and based upon legal conviction,… I suggest we start shooting them dead ……either as they are exercising their “dynamic entry” or immediately after the trial that convicts them,..then I suggest we find out who their kids are, who their parents are, and where their family lives /worship….take their fortunes…..

arrest of them,…and subject them to them same kind of “criminal justice system” that they attempt to apply to us,…….then,.after conviction…kill them,…..execute them all for treason ….especially the The criminal Bush and Clinton families
….Hilary, Chelsea, Bill…all of them,..arrest, conviction and death penalty,
…perhaps accomplished in the same day.
———————————————————-

The U.S. of Hollow

Junior demons litter the culture,
sucking up all that’s left.
The Elder knew how to pick em’
The Boy claimed no such heft.
Picked apart and long picked over,
our bird of Giving Thanks.
America, finally laid to rest,
by her own traitorous Yanks.
Liberty & Freedom,
need no such plan to follow.
Bleeding slowly across our land,
The United States of Hollow.
-
RJ O’Guillory /Author/ Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family

To Bukkiah: A policeman was shot and killed several years ago by a man whose home they incorrectly entered. Of course, they tried him but the jury found him not guilty. But that didn’t pay him back for the incredible attorneys fees, did it.

Imagine if that had been my house! I would have put five rounds from my S&W 38 through the door without even thinking about it as the chainsaw touched my door. Then I would have grabbed my Garrand and sent eight more 30.06 rounds their way.
They better get the address right in my neighborhood.

That’s right, since no one uses a chainsaw to break down a door. I would have put several 12ga slugs into them.

This was my sentiments exactly. Once unannounced violence (since I can’t “FBI” over chainsaw “WRRRRRR”) enters my home, violence springs from my home. “Fear of my life already has triggered”, the door is no barrier to that danger, so I cannot wait for its removal or actual entry, I am already engaged.

The whole no-knock warrant action strikes me as completely unconstitutional if considered in concert with the Second Amendment. I am just shocked that a policeman has not yet been shot by a surprised lawful gun owner in one of these “Wrong address” situations.

Clearly the police are not doing their jobs if they cannot confirm their targets before engagement. This is within the strict warrant regime (search warrant / arrest warrant / judges involvement). Can you believe these organizations think they need a FASTER, more express path for warrant approval. Looks like they need MORE diligence and rigor to me.

See Radley Balko’s The Agitator on this. Plenty of cops and non-cops get killed this way (see for instance Cory Maye.)
As Balko points out, if they’re going for the element of surprise because the stoners or poker players might be armed, wouldn’t the chainsaw have tipped off the bad guys? Meanwhile, if they do this pre-dawn with dynamic entry, should they be surprised that the occupants can’t determine if the guys breaking down their door are good guys or bad guys or bad guys claiming to be good guys?
That’s why we have doorbells. At least they didn’t shoot the dog, which is SOP, even if it was not a “pit bull”.

Uh you idiots suggesting shooting at the chain saw would be shot dead by the feds who would give themselves all pats on the back and a congratulatory circle jerk afterword. They wouldn’t even feel remorse. You are a citizen and they are the FBI you are to submit to their demands.

Citizen, not subject. There is a difference!

No… I wouldnt be shot dead. Some of us are HIGHLY trained, former Military, and Police. I PROMISE you not one man would make it into my house alive, I would be just fine, and we would eventually sort it all out. It will only take this scenario happening ONCE, and things will change. They just havent kicked in the “wrong” door yet.

@JROCK-You would most certainly be shot dead and I don’t give a damn about your Marine training. The first shot you fire at a Febbie and they will swarm you until you are quite dead. John Wayne idiot!

Old and In the Way…… is lucky he didn’t do what he claims he would have done, because he wouldn’t be around to write his comment today. Same goes for Ed and JROCK. As big a bunch of idiots this FBI Team must be, they still would have shown up with massive fire power. Your little weapons and false bravado would probably have gotten you killed.

What if it was a person who had a gun to defend his home???

They would be dead!!!

Ummm, I’m with the guy with the gun. The dangerous part about you “they are the FBI you must submit” people is that you are going to assume that every person that enters your house is going to be a government agent. Perhaps it’s from the lessons I learned in life but using a chainsaw to breach a room is not standard operating procedure.

If someone, anyone, does this to me then 8 +P 200 gr .45acp rounds are going THROUGH the door into whomever is wielding said chansaw. Whether it be some government agency, Jason Voorhees, or God himself. This is a threatening action and I would be JUSTIFIED in reacting to such actions with force. But i’m not going to roll over for some chance that it might be the gubment.

Do understand what happens when a citizen tries to defend his family and himself against unknown intruders (ie, no knock warrant swat team) everybody needs to Google “Jose Guerena”

Cliff note version:
Feds no knock wrong address and set off flash bangs.
Former marine and Iraq war veteran tell his wife to get son and hide in bedroom.
Jose grabs rifle to protect family.
Police fire 71 rounds at Jose who didn’t even have the chance to remove safety
Jose allowed to bleed out for an hour an dies before area was declared safe.
All officers cleared of any wrong doing.
Move along…nothing to see here. Dead men have no rights. End of story.

To those that think a homeowner with a gun would not shoot a Fed, a lady near Pittsburgh, PA shot and killed an FBI criminal that breached her home looking for… you got it, drugs. That’s ironic because the CIA, FBI, and cops are the facilitators of the drug black market. Well, not ironic. It just shows how seriously they hate competition. Unfortunately, the jurors did not understand the US Constitution nor the criminality and tyranny that is the FBI and the rest of the jack boots out of the District of Criminals; she was convicted.
Oh, and the rest of the FBI swarm that others have posted about did not shoot her dead. No knock cops should be met with a proper response.

Or imagine if the poor dog, who normally react to threats attacked the door and was killed or injured by the chain saw jerkoff. They are treating a drug offender like a dangerous mass murderer.

Idiots; all of them.!

Umm… If somebody tried to come in with a chainsaw (as mentioned, this isn’t standard) They’d get at least 5 rounds of 7.62x54r rounds… and I know body armor can’t stop those. They would not be having a good day.

Nagants hold 5 plus one… though pulling back on that safety is a pain in the butt! Love Nagants!

Exercising your Unalienable rights. A true American.

They are from the government. They are here to help us.

You would think the FBI would know an R from an F. After all, they spell their name with just three letters. Perhaps they write RBI or F8I by mistake from time to time, better get those smart agents back to primary school for some LEARNIN’.

Yep, 12 guage with bird shot at my place. It would have been coming thru the door.

Would’ve been a bunch of dead FBI agents had they did that to my house. I see a chain saw coming through my door??? I’m shooting first and asking questions later. Only problem is, once you kill one of those idiots, even in self-defense, they’re not going to stop until you’re dead. Be that as it may, I’ll go down fighting.

The lesson to learn from Jose Guerena- when black-clad attackers enter your home unannounced, don’t be caught short with a firearm on safety that hasn’t been brought to bear on the intruders. Resist the threat.

For all of the “I’d shoot ‘em” types here, you would most surely be killed in such a scenario, but there would be two after effects of your death.

One, there would be more publicity and attention turned against the LEO’s for attacking innocent citizens, and on the next bust (if you were to kill an officer) the first guy through the door would be a lot more hesitant about charging in.

One thing that the FBI seems to miss on this whole equation is the effect it has on the public.

A while back I called the White House Comment Line, and stated for the President, that “If politicians were to act as he has, in disregarding the Constitution and selectively ignoring the laws such as the DOMA (which Obama has stated plainly he will not enforce) and the immigration laws which Obama has ignored, that back in the 1700′s they would be taken out and tarred and feathered, as many were back then.”

Somehow this translated (in the mind of the low IQ “burger flipper” answering the phone), into a threat against Obama’s life. Four hours later I had a Secret Service Agent, an FBI agent and two uniformed local police officers at my front door demanding answers. I politely invited them in for coffee and answered all of their questions. I was cautioned by the Secret Service agent to “Watch what you say in the future.”

Since I did nothing illegal in my actions but the Obama Administration still felt the need to send an intimidation team to my home, they have lost all confidence from this Career Army Veteran.

Should law enforcement need my help in the future, while I will not stand in their way in any manner, I will chose to invoke my right under the 5th Amendment to remain silent. Should I ever witness a crime in my town. Even if I see a perpetrator, commit a crime, it will be a very cold day in hell before I come forward to give any evidence to aid law enforcement in anything. I would tell them the truth if they ask, but volunteering information??? Forget it.

The next time a cop asks Mrs. Sanchez “did you see anything?” after a crime is committed in her neighborhood, I have to wonder how willing will she be to step forward and give evidence to the very same people who cut down her door and left her child screaming for 35 minutes while she was forced to lay on the floor?

I read the article above but did not see mentioned anywhere that the FBI announced themselves. If it had been me and they hadn’t announced “FBI..open the door” I would have cut loose with my 20 Gauge that is loaded with 00buckshot and door busters. Chainsaw indeed…a door ram would have taken far less time. Yeah FBI…Federal Bureau of IDIOTS!

Yes, you would have taken down a few of these idiots, but there are 10 idiots waiting in line to take each idiots place. If they didn’t kill you as well, you would be locked up forever for killing federal agents. If more people would do what you say they might stop doing this, but I doubt it will happen.

@Concerned Citizen: They are not capable of remorse one way or another.
Disgusting thugs, worthless scum of the Earth. Both them and those who are cheering for the gangsters.

Josh,

Hollow point rounds do indeed expand upon impact with solid targets, and cause massive trauma with little actual penetration.

But your assertion that breaching Kevlar requires “ballistic tipped, armor piercing, or depleted rounds” isn’t quite accurate either.

“DU” or Depleted Uranium rounds are not used in small arms ammunition, in fact the smallest round containing this material is 25mm used in the gun on the Marines LAV 25 and the Army’s M2/3 Bradley Fighting vehicle and Stryker troop carrier. A round of that size will penetrate a standard issue vest even using “TPT” (Target Practice Tracer) rounds made of cast aluminum, in fact the TBT round hits with such power it will obliterate the wearer and the vest with a single round. Other rounds using “DU” are the 105mm and 120mm Tank Main Gun rounds fired from the Stryker AGS and the M1 series Main Battle Tank.

“Ballistic Tipped” is something of a misnomer since it has more to do with bullet designs for accuracy than penetration. There are a variety of ballistic tipped rounds that vary from simple bullet shape modifications, to discarding sabot designs that actually strip away part of the projectile in order to make it more aerodynamic.

Armor piercing rounds are generally made of lead with copper ally jackets just like standard ball rounds but incorporate a tungsten steel tip, which is harder but lighter than lead, the combinations of the two metals gives the bullet the toughness to penetrate the target, with the momentum to drive the steel tip through the target.

As for your comparison of the rounds regarding penetration…it is more dependent on the cartridge casing than the bullet since, for example a .308 (30 caliber) projectile fired from a 7.62 NATO cartridge (aka .308 Winchester) will not penetrate as much material as an M1 U.S. Cartridge .30 Caliber (aka 30.06) because the 7.62 NATO round has less propellant charge to push it than does the M1 U.S. Cart. .30 Cal.

“Sorry Bud, hollow points are for knock down power…..”

He’s probably an FBI troll, looking to incite someone. That’s how they get terror arrests now days.

An unlawful arrest/action by police is an assault like any other and can be resisted like any other assault. This is common sense and the USSC has ruled that DEADLY FORCE is reasonable in these circumstances.
If this happens at my house I have a SAIGA 12 (AKA an AK47 12 gauge shotgun with a 20 round drum) for these thugs who won’t be leaving the same way they arrived!

Hollow point ammo that is cast out of tin will travel 50% faster and go through both sides of class 3a body armor! So you should qualify your answers. Such as “And LEAD hollow “tips” will not go through ANY vest.”

“Hollow point ammo that is cast out of tin will travel 50% faster and go through both sides of class 3a body armor! ”

Really? Both sides, even?

Citation?

And there are other vests than just level IIIa; the guy said ANY vest.

And not even lead hollow points have a problem if you shoot them in the face. Groin works well too. Not much armor there. And it gives their pig buddies something to think about.

Good, get lost in the minutia…

I believe that it said “Husqvarna” on it

Funny @Dave D

Exactly! What if the resident had a gun in hand? Or even a baseball bat or a kitchen knife? Gunned down…..

In a police state, it’s ok if the cops kill you.

The constitution bars exactly this brand of thuggery. 7th Ammendment guarantees us trial by COMMON LAW. This is the totality of common law, encroach on no man nor his property and meet your agreements. The constitution also limits the powers of the fed gov to what is described in the constitution. Anything more the government wants to do, they must make a constitutional amendment. Which they never do, they just ignore it because people don’t know it well enough to use it to protect themselves in court. So, really, no “NEW LAWS” are necessary. We just need the whole society on the same page with the old laws AND we need to toss out all these criminal judges and politicians and ORGANIZE, town hall meeting, bar Federal Interdiction in your town regarding anything the constitution didn’t give power to the fed gov.

Dems or Pubs don’t matter – they all do the same things, despite differing words.

The state is utterly out of control.

You do realize that Nixon and Reagan (Republicans) were two of the biggest drug warrior presidents EVER, right?

Is this the first time you have read about such a story, MDKing? This has been happening for years, throughout many presidential administrations of both parties. Don’t be so naive. The shocking thing about this incident is just how “unshocking” it is. Don’t believe the propaganda and attribute this type of behavior to a president because his social and economic policies are slightly different from some other president to the “left” or “right” of him. The problem is a lack of respect for human life and dignity and a 40 year old war on drugs (started by a Republica, albeit a Republican far more liberal than our current center right presiden) that has destroyed countless lives.

reagan, clinton, and obama are all puppets of the bush cartel. reagan was an actor. clinton had over 75 people killed during his political and presidential conquests. obama is the first black man. the fact that he is black is a diversion. who was deputy director of the CIA when kennedy was killed? GHW Bush. there were no western or european owned oil wells in or off the coast of vietnam before 1960. the bush’s aren’t nazi, they’re Thule.

you are 100% correct. it is time for us to begin organizing well trained forces around this nation, and where possible, have them recognized by the county sheriff, to protect and defend citizens against these nazi’s.

@keven: You are right. the so-called war on drugs is not a “War on Drugs” per se. It is all about government taking more control and power over the citizenry.

they had a no-knock warrant for another apartment, that means they had NO warrant for the apartment they did enter.

I agree. It is far better to let Fitchburg continue with the gangs and drugs and rapes and thefts than it is to spend the money to attempt to bring it back to a place where its citizens can expect to live in peace and allow their children to play on the street. While we are at it – abolish the patriot act and just open the doors for the terrorists.

“While we are at it – abolish the patriot act and just open the doors for the terrorists.”

Yes, please do abolish the patriot act. And abolishing the act and “opening the door” for evil terrrrists are not synonymous.
Useful idiots like you are the very reason we are turning into a police state.

Cuspid, try living in a country where terrorism is an every day occurrence. American do not have a clue what terrorism really means. As I said above, it’s a pleasure to meet someone who feels his opinion is the only answer and that calling those who do not share that opinion is acceptable. Or……………..in my humble opinion, anyone who resorts to name calling does so simply because he has nothing important to say so fills his comments with dribble.

It’s drivel, btw.
Someone cutting down your door with a chainsaw and drawing down on you when your are innocent is terrifying.

And do tell, how can the patriot act stop any terrrorsts when are border is wide open? The laws are to control US citizens, not people a half world away growing plants and herding goats.

And google useful idiot before you accuse me of name calling – it is a real term, that really is accurate for your comments. :)

“our” border.

“If ye love wealth better than liberty,
the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace.
We ask not your counsels or your arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains set lightly upon you,
and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

“Cuspid, try living in a country where terrorism is an every day occurrence.”

I do:

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

an accurate term does not make it respectful……………..

“an accurate term does not make it respectful…”

I’m terribly sorry, I just didn’t see where your statist anti-freedom comments merited respect. I will have to reread them.

Annnnnnd…Done.
I stand by my proclamation.

May your chains rest lightly upon you, bro.

@cuspid. We could have this discussion all day. First, dribble is stuff that drains from your mouth – drool. Please do allow me to use the words I chose. Second, you have a valid opinion. There is a lot of what you say that I agree with. Because I do not share parts of your opinion, does not mean I do not respect it or your right to have it. Third, I also have a valid opinion. However, you do not respect my right to have it and are insulting. If you honestly believe using the term idiot in any form is not insulting, then perhaps you need to step back and think a bit harder about it. Would you use the term face-to-face, or do you feel being anonymous empowers you? If you chose the former, you are not a person I would ever associate with to begin with. However, I suspect the latter is the better choice.

For one, I choose not to spend my time discussing anything with a person who believes only his way is the right way and who shows no respect for others.

cuspid 2:39 – and you have proven my point – “you just didn’t see….” One thing in your favor is you do not disappoint.

“in my humble opinion, anyone who resorts to name calling does so simply because he has nothing important to say so fills his comments with dribble.”

Yes, tsa, I’m sure you meant my comments were filed with saliva. I mistakenly thought you meant my comments “nonsense” that I was commenting “stupidly or carelessly” i.e. drivel.

My mistake.

tsalnew: you are a despicable coward. If you need a nanny state to protect you, GTFO to Europe, you’re neither needed not wanted here!

I’m with Cuspid on this.

tsa, Maybe Cuspid meant Ignoramus. surley that’s not insulting. is it?

She should be happy, they usually shoot the dog too.

I Agree George, funny how not so long ago if this story came from the Soviet Union, China or a old article about Nazi Germany, all the comments would be Glad I Live in a FREE America. Remember what Benjamin Franklin said, “He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.”

I’d hardly call a single mother cowering on the floor in dog urine while her terrified child screams in the next room an improvement. (Reply to tsalnew)

George, if it was you having to be first one through the door of an armed drug dealers house, you might think otherwise. Stop your whining.

tsalnew – Please shoot yourself. You are a moron. The Patriot Act is the most un-patrotic thing in history, well until the NDAA was swiftly signed by the Constitutional lawyer straw man that resides in the white house for the next twelve months.

Well, alrighty then. Why don’t we just get rid of warrants? Obviously the police never screw up.

Moron.

oh look – school is out and the kiddies are on their computers.

One observation – I am not the one complaining about this country – those who are telling me to leave are. If you are complaining, it stands to logic you would be the one to find a place to move to. No, wait, that’s logic and none of you know the definition.

Carry on children! If nothing else you are amusing – painfully sad but amusing nonetheless.

TSALNEW…

…as an American,..(I presume),…you have an inherent right to be stupid, and to act like an idiot who never listened in civics class,….so good luck with your love of this corrupt government when the value of your dollar falls to half, and you cannot afford to heat your home,feed your family,..or complain about it without ending up in a FEMA Camp,…..however,..if you had some world-experience, and have had to interact with the traitorous class that runs our government,…you’d understand what your kids are going to have to live in and under,…and I hope when that day arrives for your sorry-ass,…I hope you look in the mirror, at the coward you’ve become,..and I hope you choke on your idiocy,…

Regards,

RJ O’Guillory
Author-
Webster groves-The Life of an Insane Family

RJ – it is refreshing to see you acknowledge that insanity is part of your family.

Let’s see. I said that this raid was a horrible thing. I said that I felt terrible for the mother and especially her child. I also said that every family in this country deserves to live in a safe area where they can go outside without the fear of being murdered or attacked by gangs or have their children confronted by drug dealers.

You disagree with that. I wonder who is the idiot.

Although – other than now acknowledging that there is clearly insanity and idiocy running wild on this blog – I have attempted to show respect where none has been shown by anyone here for a person who happens to have a view that is different from yours. Keep on with your theory that you have all of the answers and that you are somehow better than all else. That is the country I see and the mind set that makes me sick.

“tsalnew
I said that this raid was a horrible thing. I said that I felt terrible for the mother and especially her child.”

That’s very big of you. However you blithely accept it as the cost of doing business. Your feelings are irrelevant to fixing the situation. People are still being killed and terrorized by our own gov’t. But thank goodness you “feel terrible”. I’m sure that will help.

“tsalnew I also said that every family in this country deserves to live in a safe area where they can go outside without the fear of being murdered or attacked by gangs or have their children confronted by drug dealers.”

Could you please tell me which part of the Constitution authorizes armed military teams to kick in the doors of US citizens and terrorize and kill them and their pets?

exactly! the point and the plan.

Fitchburg is in Massachusetts, not NY

Agree 100%

I’ll second that………………………..

I so agree. Its gotten way out of hand.

A frickin’ men.

I live in a shaky neighborhood that is perpetually teetering on the edge of becoming a true crime nest. Less than a block from my house is an apartment complex filled with thugs and pushers, and they attract all the expected types regularly on weekend nights.

I also participate in the local neighborhood watch, and we walk up and down the six blocks in our territory, in groups of five (in shifts, of course), all armed with basic hand weapons (no guns), every night from 10pm until 2am. The only major problem we’ve had since we began this tradition was when a college team was bused in and was put up in the vacant back-side apartments in the aforementioned drug nest. Two people got shot that night, thankfully none in our watch group, because it happened around 3:30.

Seriously, folks, if you don’t like how your neighborhood looks, do something about it, and quit wringing your hands and complaining.

This is what it is going to take to clean this hellhole up, or we can expect a police state. Good thought process Ryan

Roger that!
Locked and loaded.

Nah. No fail on the FBI showing up. They’re 1 of the biggest criminal gangs. They’ll make up reasons to break in to people’s homes and shoot any who resist. The FBI was born from J.E. Hoover, who used the FBI to investigate congress, to blackmail them, while the CIA put all manner of blackmail worthy bait in the path of those congressmen who became pliant slaves to the will of the most demonic element of Earthly society, The Rothschild Banking Empire, which now spans the globe. The Rothschilds own every CENTRAL BANK on Earth, they own the central banks of ALL nations, they control the printing of the money with which they buy whoever needs be bought to run a monumental scam on the tax payer and massively murder people by disease, starvation, warfare. The excuses the FBI uses to break and enter and shoot people aren’t even possibly federal crimes.

Regulation would be appropriate, by the states, in compliance with the wishes of their people, IF injury were an often enough occurrence. Cannabis is impossibly over dosed and in actuality is IDEAL HUMAN NUTRITION. Cannabis contains the exact ratio humans need of omega 3 and 6 oils AND it contains the exact protein proportion humans need to build DISEASE FIGHTING IMMUNOGLOBINS. Cannabis is a purely benign MEDICINE. PLUS it’s a whole nutrient, people can survive and thrive on a cannabis only diet. Yet the fed gov by the drug war they started on American citizens is arresting people for victimless crimes, which are really no crimes at all. Then the fkn criminal judges are instructing jurors to disregard evaluating guilt and accept the judges “instructions” on how to evaluate the case, which strips the jurors of their RESPONSIBILITY to evaluate not merely if the suspect did the “crime” but if the law is just, if what the suspect did was really a crime at all, which I hold out to you, regarding mere cannabis possession is not possibly a crime by common law.

Common law is simple, don’t encroach on anybody or their property and meet your agreements. Obviously merely possessing plants you own is not an encroachment on other people, nor on their property, and doesn’t break any agreement. Thus, by common law possessing cannabis is perfectly legal. The constitution guarantees to us by the 7th Amendment, trial by jury AND common law where the offense is claimed worth more than $20.

What’s going on in the USA is grossly criminal cronyism, which is another thing that was outlawed centuries ago due the damage it causes society to have a clique of power hungry domineers using the power of the state to run their criminal game on the whole world. The FOR PROFIT Prison industry, also crony operated, is a heinous abuse of US citizens.

All this crap must and will end. It’s gross lawlessness that’s now building robot armies, drones to augment their nuke arsenal and ensure resistance be futile. The longer we let this go on, the more of us are going to die by it when you finally recognize it as brutal criminality and stand against it.

It may already be too late and these criminal globalist billionaire bureaucrat king pigs are going to accomplish the 90% human extermination globally that they’ve been planning and preparing and proselytizing as good for Earth, when really it’s only good to maintain their grossly corrupt power.

I agree with you John G. I do not want any law enforcement forcing their way through my door for any reason. Last I checked, they should be knocking on the door, identhfing themselves, and presenting a search warrant. If I woke to the sound of a chain saw sawing through my door at 6:10 in the morning and I lived in a drug infested neighborhood, they would be met immediately with flying lead.

Well said. And that’s why we need to vote for Ron Paul. He’s the only candidate worried about how rapidly we’re losing our freedom.

I agree with your first two sentences but that is a Bad idea about suing the police. Who do you think will end up paying that bill?

This is a classic situation where a Bivens suit against the government to vindicate 4th amendment rights would be available. This is like a 42 USC Section 1983 action, but those only apply to hold the states accountable. Bivens actions hold the federal government accountable in this kind of situation.

An excellent post, sir.

I shudder to think what would have happened to me if they’d done that to my door. I’m armed. I don’t like people using chainsaws to come through my door. I’m an excellent shot.

An LEO would be dead, and likely, so would I. Or drugs would have shown up in my home to “justify” the raid. Or someone would have said they announced they were LEOs.

We’re not all like that. Some of us can read numbers and addresses and such…when we’re not sleeping at our desks.

I agree whole heartedly. However, the realities of such an action would have left her dead. Let’s make an assumption that the LEOs didn’t announce themselves. Even then there were more than one. In that situation, they would be wearing protective vests and would more than likely enter with side arms drawn. The home owner opens fire in this scenario sinc she doesn’t know who is coming in. She might get one but the other LEOs will automatically return fire since they perceive a deadly threat as well. Result: at worst one cop dead but more than likey just wounded while one mother dead and one orphaned child.

However egregious the event was, her lack of response saved her life.

Not that racebaiting Holder POS.

That Puppy will grow up to be a vicious PIT BULL. Why do the Illegals all have them, Huh?

Does this mean that we can use Robert as a slave? If so, I call dibs!

You are correct – besides what is wrong with waiting on these criminals to leave and then arrest them. Unless they are a direct threat to the public, pick them up when they sliver out of their nest. That sure as hell would have made Waco a non story.

There are also shotgun rounds called door breachers for wooden doors. Bam! and the door is open.

The objective of these ‘raids’ on innocent people is to get you used to the fact thet you might be ‘invaded’ at any moment and to bring fear to the populace. All the better to control the population in the new police state.

The whole necessity of the no-knock or surprise the bad guys is completely false. After they spent over half an hour harassing the wrong person, they still arrested the correct suspects after the element of surprise was dead, buried, mourned, and memorialized in granite.

I think John Sheridan’s point is valid. How on earth could your otherwise justify these types of actions? How is it that a citizen is going to be expected to differentiate this type of event from a home invasion, in an area where they are COMMON moreover. Police have the wrong attitude about their powers.

Ron Paul!!! :)

The 4th Admendment protects from Unreasonable Searches. Even if they went to the right apartment, it would still be illegal, and I’d be happy to hang the jury, if I were on it. This is exactly why the Second Admendment exists!

Dead on Locked & loaded… Which is why I keep a gun at home. I can always call 911 to verify if it is the police with my 9mm at my side and my AR… LOL

I’m sorry NewYorker’s can’t protect themselves, the Second Ammendment was for this very thing. Police or Government or the common criminal. Some one using a chain saw on my doors will be facing a loaded shotgun with slugs and buck shot for their troubles, but I live in a free state, Texas…

NWA was right.

…I just came back to check the updates on this posting, and all I can say is “Wow”! Tsalnew, I think you’re the only one that got what I was saying! I was totally misunderstood! (I guess it’s all based on perspective). I was simply stating that Fitchburg has had a great deal of corruption that has been plaguing the town for years, and it looks like the Feds are finally (trying) to do something about it! I certainly DO NOT think that a 2yr investigation that ended in an innocent victim and her 3yr old child being terrorized by a chain saw and armed police was an acceptable event. She absolutely should be compensated for the trauma that her famiy was wrongfully exposed to. I do think, however, that it’s necessary to execute these operations with an element of surprise if it means a greater chance of catching the criminals off-guard and putting them away for some hard time. What happened to this lady was awful, and I hope the FBI will learn from this huge mistake.

If the authorities should simply compensate people who this happens to, how much should the compensation be when an innocent person is killed in one of these raids? Although it didn’t happen in this case, people ARE killed in these raids. The feds (and local police forces) are doing this sort of thing all over the country. The question is, why? Why is the use of violence necessary? Law enforcement is supposed to be charged with keeping the peace; instead, raids like this create violence where none would otherwise exist. We’ve been trying prohibition long enough at this point in time that it is ridiculous to think that by arresting drug dealers drugs will disappear, but raids like this take things even further and invert the whole calculus of the issue: The supposed reason drugs are illegal is because their use allegedly causes problems like violence (which is actually more true for alcohol than many if not most illegal drugs, but that is another issue); however, if the goal is to prevent violence, how in the world does it help to have law enforcement initiate it?

As long as raids like this are used, mistakes will be made, and innocent people will be terrorized and/or killed. Even when innocents are unaffected, violence is still being created in these raids by the state, and for what? What good are these raids doing that can outweigh that fact? Given the law of supply and demand along with the fact that most humans throughout history and in the foreseeable future will occasionally wish to chemically alter their consciousness, what good can these raids possibly achieve?

er, the last part of that last sentence should read “what good can these raids possibly be doing that would outweigh that fact?”

@FixTheFitch……….I do get what you are saying. However, as you see, little people on here will crucify you if you happen to say something that does not meet with their approval. This blog is full of what makes this country the mess it is now. I agree with what you said initially and your comments now. The end result was a horrible error. We all make errors – with of course the exception of the many here who believe they are perfect. I hope for you and all who live in Fitchburg that something is done to make it a safer place to live.

Thank God there are still some Americans with a backbone and a sense of what the Constitution is about. Cuspid….I salute you.

Nice try, Mr. FBI guy.

Like everyone else , I make plenty. But when your job requires extensive training that could save or take a human life AND you’ve had 2 years to prepare for this kind of operation, OOPS just doesnt cut it.

So it’s a non-issue for you because the woman wasnt killed in the process of this foul up? Would you have a different opinion if it was you?

An attorney probably isnt going to be able to do squat, but something like this shouldnt be taken lying down.

When you carry a gun, and/or a chainsaw, you are no longer allowed to make mistakes.

Dumb ass. GTFO!

Sorry “Postman”, but your reply to Jill was DEPLORABLE. If this woman doesn’t sue the FBI over this raid, she’s crazy. Why? First, because this is a clear case of negligence and sloppiness on the part of the FBI. This was carelessness, and it DID result in her and her daughter being traumatized. In our legal system the appropriate remedy for government abuse is monetary compensation. There is tremendous value in seeing to it that the government is held to account for it’s egregious negligence – if they are not held accountable, it sends a message that government abuse that results from negligence is acceptable. These men were sloppy and unprofessional, and tremendous harm resulted, but you think that the government should get off scot free without accepting responsibility? Also, the lawsuit will bring about a better internal review, reducing the likelihood of further similar failures, it will likely cause disciplinary action against the agents who didn’t do their jobs correctly and unnecessarily traumatized this family. Without accountability, there is little likelihood of improvement. Additionally, this woman is going to need counseling – she was just put thru a traumatic experience in which she and her daughter were terrorized because of law enforcement sloppiness. The woman was lying in dog urine and forcibly prevented from going to her crying daughter for over a half hour – but YOU don’t think the government should pay for counseling? Or punitive damages for sloppy work that caused unnecessary trauma? You don’t think she should take a week long vacation and go visit family or get away somewhere, away from a house that she’ll NEVER feel safe in again? Do you think she’ll EVER feel safe in any home, anywhere again? This has PTSD written all over it. You’re ridiculous.Do you think that ANY private sector company in the country wouldn’t be sued over causing a comparable amount of harm? Do you think that government would let any private citizen off the hook for causing a similar amount of harm? Why should government be held to a lower standard of accountability, than a private concern or individual? You’re ridiculous.

Postman,

You’re an idiot. Do everyone a favor and STFU.

Mistakes of mine don’t take the form of armed incursion complete with threats of harm and property damage. Living in Florida’s first congressional I would have opened fire on anything taking a chainsaw to my door, be vindicated in court, both criminally (Florida’s no retreat law) and civilly. And a cops kids would be minus a Baby Daddy, before I was arrested. This proforma, “church lady” apology is weak, should not serve. Next time some tool smashes through your door without a warrant, kill them. I’m not sure where you live but move.

You questioning “what if” scenarios doesn’t hold water. Certainly, if the what if’s are outlandish, like the ones you provided, then they don’t merit consideration. However, if the what if’s are reasonable, such as what if that terrorist succeeded in their plot then the what if is very important to consider. What if I don’t wear my seat belt? There are very important consequences of that behavior, particularly loss of life and property and they must be considered and that’s why we have a law for it. When the government takes down the wrong door with a chainsaw, there are very serious what if’s to consider. An innocent woman and child came extremely close to being killed by their government without a trial or having done anything wrong. This is a majorly important what if.

@Postman

Your right to make mistakes ends where my civil rights begins. Mistake or not, this was a violent and illegal home invasion that put both the occupants and the invading police at real risk of harm. Had she been armed, she would have been perfectly within her rights to fire on the intruders and would almost certainly have ended up dead as a result.

Postman,

It is quite obvious that you have no clue. Now, go back to sleep idiot!

Agreed postman – we seem to live in a world where no one who blogs makes mistakes

By all means, then. She should definitely lawyer up and Get PAID, baby! Someone making a mistake at your expense is like a winning lotto ticket to some. Get PAID!!! You people have all the angles covered. PTSD, dog pee, using the word ‘egregious’ (always good for a 5-10% increase in punitive damages), gross negligence…

She’ll never feel safe again?!?! She’s living in a crappy apartment in Fitchburg. She ISN’T safe. Thank god the people holding the guns were feds instead of her neighbors!

You’re all right! She should lawyer up and GET PAID!!! It’s the American way. Litigation is the way to success in our nation!!!

Tell me this, assume they had the right apartment, how much time did that chainsaw give the guy inside to jump out a window and run or grab a gun and be ready to blow away the cops coming through the door?

Your post is totally moronic…

for better or worse, cash is the medium of exchange by which civil liability is discharged in this country, and the liability here is substantial, i’d give her a million easy. it also sends a message to those who disregarded her constitutional rights.

Are you serious POSTMAN??? Cash awards make out of control govment agencies take notice.. sometimes. And BTW if you dont value your rights, I value mine, and I jealously and violently protect them.

You are so full of it. I hope that your family is terrorized and your pets killed by one of these raids and then perhaps you will feel differently and if you do not , you deserve what you get.

You sir, disgust me. On the graves of my Pilgrim forefathers, the violent, callous oppression of American citizens shall not stand.

Don’t know about you, Pman, but I pay a price for my mistakes.

Mistakes? Yes, I make them on occasion. However any time I’m cutting my way into someone’s house using a chainsaw I make sure to read the the number on the door first to see if its the right place. If you make a simple, dumb mistake when you do something simple its usually not that big of a deal. This mistake was way too easy to avoid for the people that did it not to have any consequences.

No one should ever trust a cop for any reason. NEVER! Especially not the always incompetent FBI or any other Fed POS. Cops are not your friends even when they act like they might be, and that includes when they are off duty because “officially” they are never off duty.

You’re kinda dumb.

God you are stupid!

Postman,

You’re an idiot. Do everyone a favor and STFU.

Is that your best argument, Mr. Obama?

What if is exactly the correct question in a land governed by the rule of law, not the rule of man. If someone was chainsawing my door, I would assume was an intruder and there would be a whole lotta lead and dead.

This swat team engaged in pure, gross negligence. There is no excuse for it. If they can’t even get the apartment right? How much can you trust their investigation and evidence they used to get to this point?

oh, Postman, and in addition to being perfect, bloggers also feel their opinion is the ONLY one that is valid and will happily call names and insult …………..why……..because as I said they are perfect ! Go figure

Probably a gov’t troll. I guess he calls himself the Postman because “The Postman always rings twice.” Twisted sick humor at the expense of the woman’s child..

“What if” is just another way of saying: “Think it through before you act”. Or does Murphy’s Law have no place in Postman’s world?

Well postman, what if she did move and they killed her?
Cost of doing business?
Submit or die, regardless of guilt?
Submit to all whom order you around?
Can I break in your house while yelling FBI? Will you automatically obey me?

I’m sure tsa has some rationalizations too; what are they?

I’m all ears.

Obama signed a continuation and expansion of the ‘Patriot’ act, so it’s his too.
Obama also has the NDAA that makes Bush look like the Keebler elf in comparison. The NDAA allows permanent detention/murder of any citizen for any or no reason without trial.

Liberals are funny. They’ll blame bush for everything he did wrong (which was a lot) and then defend Prez Zero for continuing every same policy…

IF WHAT?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?…..moron.

Could you PLEASE STFU and GTFO?!

We don’t need a what if, we have what really happened. An innocent woman and child were wrongly detained at gunpoint by their government with no probable cause. This is bad.

Really? I bet you voted for Obama. Another stupid, shortsighted devotee of government power. Check out the link below and get diarrhea!!!

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

@Mike,
Really a link to o the CATO Institute? Why not a more direct link to Koch Industries? The last thing that these Koch ‘think tanks’ are interested in individual rights. Corporate rights, well that’s another question….

Your point postman?
“What if,” is the reason potbellies are allowed to put their hands down the pants and grope 5 year-olds in airports. “What if” is the reason radiation porno bakers are in airports, courthouses and planned to be put in train and bus stations.
“What if” is the reason Bush attacked Iraq and Obama attacked Libya and plans to attack Iran. The state uses “what if” to justify it’s tyranny daily.

The fact is through an act of total incompetence a Federal police agency placed a woman and her child in extreme danger, destroyed property, and violated a number of basic human rights. And apology doesn’t cut it.
The number one cause of unnatural death worldwide is government. Only a fool would say that isn’t a reason to ask relevant “what if” questions.

That would be up to a jury

So what.

As a cop killer, you’d be the toast of the cell block. Besides, with ass kissers like you, there is no incentive for the goons with a badge to clean up their act.

“If you shot a cop you’d go to jail”

Not if I were on the jury – not in this case for sure.

It’s hard to hear LE’s announce themselves with a chainsaw going. They’re lucky she wasn’t armed.

No, I’d shoot them. Though, their dead bodies would evacuate, so the part about the pee is technically correct, it would just be there’s. Nice try idiot.

>>>Postman

…or you would have pee’d in your jammies when you opened your eyes looking down the barrel of an HK416. Then you could sue for a better bed to replace the one you pee’d. Go big! If you get a good lawyer, you could probably get a new Tempurpedic mattress!You’re right, though. You would have the right to shoot at ‘em UNLESS they identified themselves as LE with a search warrant. Then, you need to stand down….<<<

And you filthy rotten violent crazy evil pigs wonder why normal people hate you now? Read what you've been writing, and think about it. Keep it up, and there's no telling what's gonna happen.

James Solbakken

No need to stand down with an illegal warrant at the wrong address. It is common for criminals to use “Open up, Police.” when trying to enter a home. My advice is to lock your door, arm yourself and call 911 to report an intruder. When I die, it will be standing up. Not laying down in a puddle of dog piss.

No need to stand down with an illegal warrant at the wrong address. It is common for criminals to use “Open up, Police.” when trying to enter a home. My advice is to lock your door, arm yourself and call 911 to report an intruder. When I die, it will be standing up. Not laying down in a puddle of dog piss.

Better than George Soros who worked for the Nazis.